Ask Rizen
May 22, 2009 – 13:05PMFTOPS is finally over. I love the big online poker series, but man they are a time sink, and can get pretty expensive if you don't do well. I had an okay FTOPS. I haven't done the math at all, but I'm pretty sure I came through the FTOPS a slight loser, but fairly close to break even. My biggest cash was for $2k in the no limit heads up event that I placed somewhere in the 40s and went out in the round of 64. It was SUPER disappointing for me as I had the guy down 5850/150 in chips early on, but my A8s lost to A5o and then I ran 66 into KK and he picked up AK in another situation and before I knew it it was 4000/2000 again. I'm normally very good at controlling tilt and keeping my emotions in check, but he continued to run pretty well pre-flop and I started to play poorly after some frustration set in from being so close to winning and not closing it out. To be fair to my opponent he played VERY well and to get him down so far early on I had a bit of a cooler/suckout anyways. Still, FTOPS has proven to be the tournament series that so far has frustrated me the most. I have yet to finish better than 12th in an event. I have no doubt I'm quite profitable longer term in those tournaments and will keep playing them, would just be nice to go really deep in one. I've had good finishes in just about every Sunday Major there is, in WCOOP and SCOOP. I won a UBOC event, final tabled a BPO (Bodog Poker Open) event, but the FTOPS is still a mystery to me :) On to the questions!
Q: Rizen, I have a bankroll of around $300. What site would you play on and how would you utilise a similar roll to build it in the current poker environment?
A: This is a really tough one for me to answer as it's been so long since I've tried to build a bankroll. Back in the day (I sound old now) I used to use deposit and reload bonuses to build my roll quickly. But then it was easier to move money around with neteller from site to site and take advantage of the bonuses. Today it's not that easy, so I would think you'd probably have to stick with one site. Some of it would depend on what my goals are. If you're looking to pick a site and build up a bankroll to eventually play in big games you probably want to pick a bigger site that will have a lot more game selection as you move up in limits. By bigger site I mean some of the obvious candidates like Poker Stars and Full Tilt Poker. If you were looking to simply be able to build that $300 into a larger amount (by larger I mean probably double or triple it in a reasonable amount of time) going with a smaller room with good rakeback and deposit bonuses would probably be more ideal.
As far as how I would utilize it, it really depends on the individual's strengths and weaknesses. If someone were truly a great all around poker player equally skilled at cash, MTTs, and SnGs, then in my experience with students at the micro levels SnGs often ofter the easiest way to build your bankroll while once you get properly bankrolled to play $.25/$.50 and higher cash games seem to be a better way to go. So provided the player was equally good at both (better to stick to your strengths) I'd have them grind SnGs until they get to about $1250 (usually want 25 buy ins for a NL cash game) then switch over to cash.
Q: While you have had success, have you ever went into a tournament playing the exact opposite of "normal" style? An example would be a tight player going all "Gus Hansen". I feel like sometimes if we over analyze the game we forget how to really win, and that is just flat out-playing your opponents. I understand changing styles, but I am talking about a full tournament philosophy. Thanks and good luck.
A: I am a firm believer that if one is only willing to play one 'style' then you're leaving lots of money on the table. I think everyone has a 'comfort zone' or a style they are very comfortable playing, but really you should be adapting your style to whatever fits the current table and/or situation the best. You want to be a chameleon of sorts playing more aggressive and loose when others are playing too tight and more selectively aggressive if everyone is playing too loose. I've heard many arguments of 'LAG' vs 'TAG' and to me they're all absurd. There is no one style that is best for all situations, although certain styles tend to be successful more often than others in the current poker landscape. But even that is constantly changing and evolving.
Q: I consider myself a solid player and play almost exclusively online. I play in a lot of small tourneys, mostly due to economic circumstances. There always seems to be a betting/all-in frinzy in the early stages of these tourneys. I want to play my KQ, A 10, 78 suited pocket hands to at least see a flop. What I see is pot, half stak, all-in's with 3-4 calls and donkey style poker, just about every hand until the first break. Then things seem to settle down. I have considered simply sitting out for a while but can't seem to resist making a call. Even if I get a good look at the table, (5-6 position) someone behing me always seems to drop a pre-flop bomb shell.. My question is, How do you aproach this, and what is the secret to surviving donkeys that always seem to be playing in small pay-out tourneys? Is the low entry fee the problem?
A: I know this isn't exactly what you're saying, but one of the most common questions I get is 'I can't stand playing all these terrible players, should I move up in limits where people might actually respect my raises?' I'm paraphrasing, and this is probably a bit harsh, but if I re-worded it to say 'hey, all these donkeys in the play chips games keep taking all my fake money, should I play and lose real money instead?' it would sound ridiculous right? The problem seems to be that you're not happy that they're not letting you play the kind of poker you want. Unfortunately that doesn't change at higher limits, just the methods used to put you outside your comfort zone are different. Having the discipline to adapt your game to the varying table conditions is an important part of poker. Unfortunately, if the table is doing that, you have to fold your KQ/87s type hands and simply wait for good hands and get it all in with a huge edge. That may not be the 'fun' way to play poker but it is the profitable way to play those games. Now, if you want to move up to higher entry fees because you feel the games are more fun, that's fine. Just make sure you realize that you're moving up for entertainment purposes, and not to win more money. There are exceptions, but for the most part if you're not able to overcome and beat the $5 games, moving up to the $20 games is not going to suddenly make you profitable, in fact it usually does the opposite and just makes you lose money faster.
-Rizen
2 Comments
Hey Eric,
Thanks for sharing your FTOPs results and also answering questions. I'd like to chime in on the player with the $300 bankroll.
If they want to have an easy time building that up, I'd highly recommend they read the section in Super System 2 on Omaha hi/lo. Then play the lower limit O8 cash games on Full Tilt or Stars.
I'd probably lean towards Full Tilt just because they can toss in rakeback with multi-tabling pretty soft games. But of course, you can't be an action-junkie who's addicted to hold em with this approach, as O8 limit cash games are a whole other beast.
But if they want a pretty easy way to build their roll without a lot of stress, that's what I'd recommend.
Thanks for your advise on 'Donkey Play'. I admit my ears were burning but your paraphrasing was accurate and your criticism I needed to hear... I am re-thinking my whole approach to online poker thanks to your advise.
I would mention that I have played poker for over 40 years, mostly live poker room/clubs and straight stud poker. I had the attitude that no respectable poker player would play with 'wild cards.' Then I started watching Texas Hold Um on TV and was captivated... Now I play on the computer with '5' wild cards!, and it was a trememdous adjustment for me. I lost my shirt at first because I simply did not understand the game. I can't change the make-up of donkey style poker online, so I have to learn how to deal with it or go back to the card rooms. That is what i am learning by playing more and listening to people like you. Thanks....
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